Wednesday, November 30, 2005

Herne and Cernunnos - Same God?

I've been given cause to wonder recently when I've heard Herne and Cernunnos mentioned as if the names are interchangeable because to me they're not really.

If anyone were to ask me who my main patron God is I'd say Herne. Now I know that he's a bit of a debatable deity as the first mention of him is in Shakespeare's Merry Wives of Windsor but my experience of him is as an extremely primal God, possibly even pre-Homo sapiens.

Cernunnos isn't so hard to track down as he was known by the Romans and seems to have been the horned fertility/forest God of the continental European Celts, with possible Welsh involvement. However, he doesn't seem to quite fit my Horned God; close but not quite there. I think it's the Latin influence, perhaps Cernunnos has more of Pan about him but Herne has more than a touch of Odin.

So, are there any other Herne worshipers out there who feel this distinction?

Funniest Holiday Experience

Well tis the season, and I was wondering what everyone's funniest experience for this time of the year.

Tuesday, November 29, 2005

The Oak King, the Holly King and the Unicorn

I'm doing a research project about the Lady and the Unicorn tapestries and happened to pick up the book The Oak King, the Holly King, and the Unicorn, which is about the Hunting of the Unicorn tapestries. I thought it might apply. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had read it and what they thought of it. Some of it seems okay, and some of it is setting off my BS detectors. (Including some mentions of the Triple Goddess. And this is supposed to be a scholarly book about art history.)

Also, when did the Oak King and Holly King idea appear? If I remember correctly, it was more recent than the tapestries (about 1500).

I'm Throwing Gender Out Of My Dualities

For probably years I've had a huge problem with almost every magical system I've bumped into. It's a gender problem. In almost every magical book I've read, with the exception on one of Cunningham's books on herbs (he replaces "Male and Female" with "Hot and Cold"). The trait of being female is always associated with the moon, and list of traits reads like this:
(This is from Wicca: A Year and a Day by Timothy Roderick)

Moon
Contracting
Dark
Yin
Passive
...

Being male is associated with the sun:
Sun
Expanding
Light
Yang
Active
...

This has always upset and then puzzled me in equal measure. The upset comes from having a Christian upbringing and being brow-beaten with the idea that women are basically passive. Finding what appears to be the same idea in every religion I have seen was upsetting.

Why upsetting? Because it's puzzling to me. The puzzlement is that one of the reasons I left Christianity (other than it not making sense to me), was that associating a physical sex with personality traits never made sense to me at all--it just wasn't realistic when I looked at myself and my friends.

Whenever I would voice this question in Christianity, I would get the "read your bible" answer.

When I started asking about the divine polarity in Wicca I'd get something like this:
"Yes, but the Lord and the Lady are part of the same energy. We each have pieces of the God and Goddess within us"
I feel this skips neatly around the question--why is the sun associated with being male in the first place? Why is the moon female?

But as I was reading this rather fluffy exercise in a Wicca: A Year and a Day book it struck me that if I just remove the Male and Female genders from the list of traits for the moon and sun--it starts making a lot more sense!
The sun *is* fiery, full of light, associated with being active. The moon is in my mind as being dark, dreaming, and cool. Gender has nothing to do with it!

Has anyone had an experience like this?

Saturday, November 26, 2005

Influences of New Age and Feminism on Pagan Religions?

I have some questions I would like to ask you. This time it regards the influences two other movements can have on Pagan religions and vice versa. I know that there are others but for the purpose of this discussion and my subsequent analysis/usage of it in my paper I will limit myself to feminism and New Age.

I will begin with the latter: From what I have read on the Net, Pagan religions have long been put down by some academics in the field of New Religious Movements as one branch of New Age. That attitude is changing now and the studies of Paganism that I have read differentiate the two and usually note that Pagans can be highly critical of New Age practices.

While I am personally critical of New Age when it comes to a certain degree of revisionism/blatant appropriation I am still wondering if there is or could be a certain degree of overlap happening between Pagan religions (especially Eclectic traditions) and New Age? And I don't mean extremists (i.e fluffy people or weirdos) necessarily!

The second movement I want to examine is feminism. Here I am already aware of some influences and outgrowths (Dianic Wicca, some parts of Reclaiming, interest (or even belief) in the works of feminist scholars etc).

But I am still curious about the possible influx it might have had on "Tradional" Wiccans. Have practices/deity views been transformed here as well or have you largely remained untouched?

Recon views, especially Greek Recons, are also welcome to chime in as is every member of this board though not specifically addressed here.

Karma? Hell? Punishment?

Christianity includes punishment by God or eternity in Hell if you screw up, and from what I've read of karma, it too promises payback. My knowledge of world religions is minimal, so I don't know if other systems have similar ideas. But, is it necessary to use fear? What about positive reinforcement? Is there so little evidence of reward that only fear seems most effective? Are there any religions you know of that don't use fear in some form?

How Much Knowledge Needed to Worship?

In another thread, Sine said, "Non-initiated so-called "wiccans" aren't worshipping the Gods of the Wicca..."

This made wonder just how much knowledge of a particular God is required to actually worship them. For example, Athena was often known in ancient Athens as simple "the Goddess" as she was the patron deity of the city. If someone who knew very little about the Greek Gods (not even their names) worshipped "The Goddess of Athens," I have no doubt but that Athena would know she was the object of worship. She might not find the form of worship selected in ignorance very pleasing, but the person would still be directing their worship to Athena.

So it seems to me that of someone directs their worship to "the Goddess of the Wica," to the "God of the Muslims," or whoever, these Gods would also know they are the object of worship. If they don't, I personally think they are too weak to be considered real deities.

Of course, as I said, the object of this worship might not be pleased if the proper forms of worship are not observed. Or is this more of a mistaken human concern (that is, are the Gods not as picky as we humans think they are)? Hence the question, just how much knowledge does one have to have before one can worship a diety at all? Is more required to worship a diety effectively? How do we know?

Friday, November 25, 2005

What Colors Unverified Personal Gnosis?

A topic on an e-list got me to thinking over the last couple days. The discussion brought up the point that building a practice based totally on UPG can be sort of 'adrift' and that using some good references (say on Greek religion for Greek recons) helps ground what you do in a historical reality. And I absolutely see the purpose in that, even though I am not a reconstructionist by any strict sense of the word.

But then my mind started doing this snarly little chicken vs egg argument with itself. I got to thinking about my own dependence on UPG....both in my pagan life, and prior to that in that I had mystical experiences as a Christian. Since a Christian friend had asked me, as I was leaving that behind, how I could do that in light of those moments of grace, my answer plays into this question. I told her that when I went back over my experience, yes, it had an ineffable quality and a wonder and delight, awe and shock---what it did NOT have was a pronounced cut in stone Christian content. I had interpreted it that way because that was my expectation, you see.

Stripped to the essentials, my experiences back then were nonsectarian to say the least. So, thus my question here. Many of us read a lot, and I can't help but wonder if those sources we read do COLOR the UPG we have? Obviously, it would be hard to say those experiences are not shaped somewhat by our interpretation and how much of that interpretation is based upon what we read? I gave a JCI ident to my first experience because at that time...over 25 years ago, that was almost my only data available.

Of course, having that said...now the identity issue is much more problematical for me. I scarcely take anything at 'face' value unless it is so inargueable as to knock me on my tail! This is so not making my life easier! Anyone else run into this, or am I the only one must missing some major point?

What Are You Thankful For?

This week is the American holiday of Thanksgiving. What are you thankful for?

Thursday, November 24, 2005

Happy Thanksgiving!

The staff of The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum wishes all our US members celebrating Thanksgiving today a very happy Thanksgiving. Don't eat too much now.

Template by - Abdul Munir | Daya Earth Blogger Template